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Hi , new to site but always having a look , I have a 2012 2.2 se nav antara 4x4 , had a problem with engine vibration through steering wheel and floor when on idle , I ended up replacing the injectors , no difference , then turbo changed after inspection, turbo pipe changed , still no change , runs perfect , starts perfect , it’s idling at 700 rpm , stop start not working , button working , not heard the DPF going , any ideas , or anyone has this problem , it’s annoying as I love the car and had it from new
 

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Hi Can you clarify something.

Is the engine running rough or do you just have a vibration issue ?

4 cylinder diesels are not the smoothest of things, especially the Antara, the engine develops a lot of torque.

If its at idle, then the turbo wouldn't do anything. if the DPF was blocked then the engine would have no power. Guessing could this be an injector issue or an engine mount issue.

Have you tried getting the engine codes read, you could try some injector cleaner. What about the air flow sensor they sometimes need cleaning, their is also a valve on the inlet to the intake manifold, apparently they can stick.

Not really sure,my engine sometimes hunts a little at idle, I can hear a diesel knock which goes after a few secs and then comes back, it just keeps repeating itself, it doesn't always do it. I was maybe thinking it could be a sticking air intake valve. I haven't quite figured out what this could be.

Richy
 

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just sat this morning with my engine idling and I can feel the engine hunting through vibration in the body. I can feel the vibration every 6-7 seconds and it lasts for 2-3 seconds approx.

Has anyone had anything similar. Richy
 

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Found this Youtube
[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p71pjt4COkE[/ame]

This is exactly the noise that mine makes. Richy
 

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Does anyone have any idea what this is. Could if be a sticking valve or a dirty air flow sensor. It seems the engine refuses to settle into a consistent idling state and keeps adjusting itself. Any ideas why. Richy
 

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Mine has been in the garage for a month now for a new transfer box, but it has this issue also but only when the engine is hot. I think it is an injector problem, I get no eml lights and have told the garage it needs sorting but still waiting for a response.
 

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Hi jonjon

I'm convinced this is not an injector problem. So I wouldn't go committing to huge sums of money. This noise is not continuous but more of a hunting type sound where it comes and goes. Also the fact that this only happens when the engine is hot is another factor, if this were an injector fault why would this not happen when the engine is cold.

I think this is related to the EGR valve and I have also heard people say an EGR cable fault, Well I have wiggled my cables and cannot reproduce the fault. The EGR valve only operates when the engine is hot and I believe at idle, which is when I get the noise. We know that EGR valves, so people say, can be problematic.

So, coming back to the noise, the hunting sound I think is the engine ECU continually adjusting the injectors to try to meet some setting which it is unable to do. The next check for me is to disconnect the EGR plug when the engine is hot and making the noise to see if it stops. Then I will probably need to remove the EGR valve which is not the most straight forward as I understand you need to remove the rear engine support. This I'm seeking motivation for as I'm nearly 60, its cold outside, it doesn't stop the car working and we rarely use the car winter.

So can anyone with this problem try disconnecting the EGR valve and tell me if the problem goes away. Then we move on to the next stage. Richy
 

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Richy, every injector has a correction factor which has to be logged into the ECU. Once these are known, the ECU goes through a Pilot Learning (or Small Quantity Learning) process to get the best pilot injection timing and duration for that engine.
Pilot Injection can go out of sync eg because one or more injectors is contaminated or worn and can cause uneven idling, surging etc. When the engine is hunting like that, it’s because the ECU is trying to re-learn the pilot injection requirements but it’s hamstrung because the correction factors which are hard-coded into it are no longer correct.

Some owners have the injectors removed and overhauled and find this cures the problem. It only needs one of the injector nozzles to be even partially blocked to affect the injector spray pattern and if there’s dirt in the fuel system you’re better to get them all done.

[FONT=&quot]You can run a leak-off test to see if there is a badly worn injector and, if there is, then a replacement injector may well cure the problem. [/FONT]
 

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OK Victor, I'm clearly wrong in my assumptions. Thanks for the advise

Presumably you need to take the car to Vauxhall to get the leak off test carried out ?
Do you have any idea why it doesn't do this when the engine is cold or is it just how it is.

Richy
 

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Yesterday, 21:53 Richy
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2019 Location: Warwickshire
Posts: 212

OK Victor, I'm clearly wrong in my assumptions. Thanks for the advise

Presumably you need to take the car to Vauxhall to get the leak off test carried out ?
Do you have any idea why it doesn't do this when the engine is cold or is it just how it is.

Richy


You weren’t completely wrong in your diagnosis, you were very close to the mark when you said “the hunting sound I think is the engine ECU continually adjusting the injectors to try to meet some setting which it is unable to do”. I’m not saying what’s definitely wrong with your car, I’ve never even heard it first hand, just going by that clip you posted.

The reason why it doesn’t do it when it’s cold is because Pilot Learning only takes place once the engine is up to temperature (~ 80 deg F).

Surging /uneven idle can be caused by a faulty suction control valve (SCV) on the injection pump but a faulty SCV usually also causes poor starting which I don’t think you have.

I’ve never experienced this with my own vehicle but I’ve noticed a couple of things as reported on the Antara and Captiva forums:

It tends to happen to engines where a diesel tuning chip has been used.
It tends to happen more with automatics.
Surging /uneven idle can be caused by a faulty fuel filter.
[FONT=&quot]Any other cause of fluctuating fuel pressure (faulty pump, leaking connections, faulty common rail pressure switch etc)[/FONT]
 

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Thanks Victor, Understand now about pilot learning being about 80 degrees. At the moment the knock seems intermittent, it can be doing it then all of a sudden stop. This makes trying to diagnose even more difficult. One thing I will do is change the fuel filter as I don't know if this has previously been changed. The other items like oils and air/oil filter etc have all been changed regularly since I have owned the car.

The car starts well and really runs very smoothly except when the diesel knock happens, if your stationary you can feel a very slight vibration but it is slight.

I will also try some forte diesel additive and keep an eye on and see what happens. It is difficult being a DIY mechanic especially with modern engine ECU's as its not easy to gain access to all the programming criteria, this is where help from people like yourself is so important and welcome. The other thing I meant to mention earlier was no engine light, so whatever this is, is hopefully quite minor. I have also noticed that for the first few miles my engine RPM runs slightly higher than normal around 1000rpm whereas when hot its about 750rpm. I think this is normal as the car replaces its charge, I found a receipt so I know that at 30k my inlet throttle body was cleaned out, but I don't think this is connected. My car to my knowledge has never been chipped and is manual.

Cheers Richy
 

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Update: just got my antra back after 2 months at the dealers, they sent the injectors off for testing and cleaning. They said they drove the car for an hour so they think that they have fixed the problem. 20mins drive home.... the knocking is back again, unless a computer tells them what’s wrong they haven’t got a clue! Back she goes in the morning.
 

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As my earlier note I replaced my fuel filters, (2) which were black as the ace of spades, I don't think they have ever been changed, they are easily forgotten when they are on the underneath of the car. The car now is running a lot smoother as Victor suggested however due to my current discharge/battery issues I have not had the chance to give the car a long run but since changing the filters I have not heard the noise.

For those DIY'ers out there the job is quite straight, i put the front of the car on ramps to improve access, put bowl under the filter, undo the phillips screw and drain casing into bowl, with 27mm socket loosen both filters and drain excess into bowl, lubricate the o-ring seals on new filters, fit new filters torque to number on case, refit phillips screw then I turned the ignition on about 10 times to bleed the filter before starting the car.

Be wary in 2012 they swapped filter type so best remove one of the filters and measure length and diameter before ordering. I bought the wrong ones initially which were pleated, the right ones for my car have a smooth filter media. Richy
 
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