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What's your problem with your 4 WD?

Nothing to stop you removing the propshaft which effectively reduces it to FWD only. Trouble is if the internals of your transfer box are worn / breaking up it could still go bang. The subject's been broached before eg <!--if gte mso 9>
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http://www.antaraownersclub.com/forum/transfer-box_topic3531.html



http://www.antaraownersclub.com/forum/119000-motorway-miles-might-aswell-scrap-it_topic3141.html

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I was wondering if it would save the transfer box from the failure that they are prone to. It is my 1st 4wd.
 

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I don't know whether it would save the transfer box from failure. Removing the propshaft still leaves the transfer box turning over its internals although I'd imagine there would be less strain on them.

If you look at this thread you'll see where a member called Matti (a time-served mechanic apparently) says he removed the internals of the transfer box to save any trouble and he can put them back in when he comes to sell it. Trouble is, if you had to pay for that work to be done it might be cost-prohibitive.
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Thanks Victor,
Just to update i have Done 6 for local owners up to now, to remove the internal gear , refit casing , driveshaft ect and new oil it costed at £200 , had two out of the six that need the casing repaired , havnt got an alloy welder so outsouced the casing to a local welder and that added £50 approx,
The cars drive normal afterwards just fwd only with no warning lamps.
Matt


Edited by: Mattlcfc
 

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Hi Matt, that's interesting to know, I reckon if I owned one of these I'd be round to see you, at 200 notes it seems like s steal. Of the ones you've done, have they all been manual transmissions? Just wondered what oil they used because the earlier Series 1 Antara used automatic transmission fluid in the whole transaxle and it seems a bit contentious whether EP gear oil or ATF goes in the later ones.
 

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I am in the same boat tbh. Antaraless , wife fancied a mini convertible....in the winter.
. I order the oil from the reg number from vauxhall Victor, the vauxhall trade club works out cheaper than the local factor tbh. What comes goes in.
TOP TIP. vauxhall batteries are always worth checking if you need one. Any make of car. I cant find anyone that can compete with them on price,
 

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That was funny Matt when the words Vauxhall and Victor appeared the forum tried to turn it into a hyperlink (I remember the Vauxhall Victors quite well in fact I was going to use Victor101 as my ndp when I joined but decided against it in case nobody knew what I was talking about. Thanks for the tip about Vauxhall batteries, I'll bear that in mind.
 

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With removing all the gears and components within the transfer box seems a good idea.
But then I start thinking with all gears and components removed to stop any damage happening with a costly repair is this the correct way

It's a known fact that the transfer box internal oil pump cuts through the casing letting oil leak out causing catastrophic damage (only when vehicle is moving) so the leak is very hard to identify when vehicle is parked up.
But once oil has got so low all the gears start to run dry and bang goes the Transfer box.
I think that on removing all gears and components does this include the internal pump being removed and if so this will mean the oil inside the T box will just be sitting there when vehicle is moving and then surely both wheel drive shafts prop shaft seals and barrings will run dry and be damaged in the long term

Plus by removing gears making vehicle which is a 4WD to a 2 WD is a major modification and insurance should be informed of the change to transfer box. Yes it may not be visible from outside that transfer box is empty
Again I feel that the only way to stop this damage happening is the ( pump rub ) kit. But finding the correct kit for the Antara T box something like link below

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F322018348146Edited by: Bigjohnsparky
 

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I've been reading with interest regarding the removal of components fron the transfer box and have a few queries.

Matt, which gear or gears did you remove? I'm guessing it would be the "middle" gear set with the crown gear? #25 in the diagram?


Bigjohnsparky, is it certain that these transfer boxes even have a pump in them? I've not had the box apart but have the exploded diagram of one and cant see one in there. From the research I have done, it seems the bearings just grind their way out of the box. I'm no expert so just need some clarification before going ahead and stripping it down (its not failed......yet!)


Thanks


 

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Hello Dave501 and welcome to the Antara forum. Isn't that an exploded view of the transfer case for the Series 1 Antara with the 2 litre engine and the 5 speed transmission?
 

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OK, Dave, let's run with that for the time being. As regards removing the internals, if we assume

Item 24 is the mainshaft
Item 25 is the layshaft
Item 35 is the pinion
Item 14 is the OSF drive shaft.


I would say that removing item 25 layshaft would be enough to effect a 4WD to 2WD conversion and rrelieve the transfer box of any strain. I don't see the need to remove the mainshaft which, since it is hollow, houses the OSF drive shaft and I'm sure offers some kind of support to it although not any drive.
 

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Agreed, plus the mainshaft must have some seals on it to prevent gearbox oil filling the transfer box. I did wonder if removing the propshaft as well might be a good idea as it would serve no purpose.

I will take a look at mine in due course and see if it is the sa me as the diagram and if it has a pump - unless someone can confirm it hasn't in the meantime.
 

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Hi Dave looking at this drawing it seems not to show a pump but what is item 10 ?
Anyone that has worked on the Antara transfer box would be able to give the answer as to the pump
As GM have acknowledged the problems caused by pump rub with in there transfer boxes and lost a law suit in USA over this. This is why you can see that this info about pump rub but then with all these transfer boxes seem to have a time limit before failing and Vauxhall of course look puzzled and when asked say oh this is the only transfer box that has failed and we would like to charge you up to £6000 to put right
 

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Item 10 is described as a "clip, spring". Check out the below link, all the parts are listed for the box. Quite useful for any parts you might need for the Antara.

http://ecat24.com/opel/catalog/part/1/3/345/1205/12620,12619/


Incidentally, I read somewhere that these boxes are made by Getrag so not sure if they are the same as the GM ones in the US. The ones with the pump issue have a chain, whereas our ones do not. Not sure if that would make a difference.
 

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There's no oil pump in this transfer box, it doesn't need one. The types of transfer box which need oil pumps are the bigger, heavier ones with viscuous couplings and multi disc clutches which handle all the torque requirements for front and rear, proportioning the power as required and usually provide High and Low ratios as well.

Re removing the propshaft, there's nothing to stop you removing all the hardware for the rear wheel drive inc the prpopshaft, the diff unit and the drive shafts out to the rear hubs. My 2WD has the same hubs as the 4WD with splines machined in the middle, there's just no drive shafts in them. The advantage woukd be a reduction in drag and unsprung weight but the possible penalty would be a question over braking stability and possible rear suspension control affected. Personally I'd be inclined to leave everything else in place, much easaier to convert back to sell it when the time comes.
 

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So we are just looking at bearing break up, which brings into question what oil should you use and how often should you replace it? Synthetic hypoid 75W90 GL4/5 seems to be the favourite, and a mechanic friend of mine suggested doing it every major service, although he also said that the part time 4x4 system kicking in and out probably doesn't help. Who knows?

I agree with you Victor that removing everything may not be an advantage but the propshaft will be gone if I get round to doing the mod.



Good comments and advice so far, well worth joining the forum. Thank you.
 

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I'd sure like to know exactly what happens with these boxes that causes the bearings to wear out through the casing. Is it the bearing shells that start to rotate in their housings? If so does that mean the casing is expanding too much when hot and allowing the shells to rotate? These shells are usually an interference fit and need to be pressed in, seems if I was fitting bearings into one of these I'd be using Loctite or similar to permanently locate them.

I wonder if anyone is using anti-friction additives in the oil because that's not a good idea, roller bearings need a certain amount of friction to work properly. Too slippery a lubricant and the bearing rollers stop rolling the load and just skid around the track.


Dave501, on the question of which oil to use, I'd think the synthetic hypoid 75W90 would be fine although with the removal of the crown gear there's no hypoid function with the pinion any more. I do wonder whether a straight mineral oil would be better for the bearings per the previous para.

Edited by: Victor
 
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