Is this a lightning conductor? - Vauxhall Antara Forums
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post #1 of 11 (permalink) Old 16th July 2017, 20:38 Thread Starter
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Spent a bit of time up in my loft today doing some flooring and noticed this metal bit loose running from the rafters to the front wall of the house. The house has brick built walls on the outside with cinder block walls built on the inside). There's several other metal bits the same as this which are screwed on to the rafters and seem to be cemented in to the interior wall. Are they lightning conductors to stop the roof exploding if it gets struck?

Where's BJS my building code advisor and FOC consultant?




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post #2 of 11 (permalink) Old 16th July 2017, 21:37
SJG
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Roof ties, stops your roof blowing off in the wind.....
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post #3 of 11 (permalink) Old 16th July 2017, 23:31 Thread Starter
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Thanks for that SJG, reckon I'll need to look further into it because there's no ties in the rear gable wall whereas I'd think there should be.

Don't want to wind up with my roof like this





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post #4 of 11 (permalink) Old 17th July 2017, 01:10
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Yep SJG is write they hold the timbers of the roof to the walls or it's just the weight of the roof holding it all in place
Here's some info of types of fixings used










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post #5 of 11 (permalink) Old 17th July 2017, 11:14 Thread Starter
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That's a bit of a concern to me BJS, in the first pic it shows the long side of the tie goes to the wall and the short side to the roof timbers. On my house they have them fitted the other way round ie the long side is screwed or nailed to the rafters and the short side to the cinder block wall. Need to look further into this.

Talking about buildings etc, did you hear this one;
A pickup with three guys in it pulls into the lumber
yard. One of the men gets out and goes
into the office. "I need some four-by-two's," he says. "You must
mean two-by-fours" replies the clerk. The man scratches his headthen says "Wait
a minute, I'll go and check." After
discussions with with the other occupants of the truck, he says “Yes,
two-by-fours will be fine”.

"OK," says the clerk, writing it down, "how
long you want 'em?" The guy gets the blank look again. "Uh... I guess I better go check,"
he says. He goes back to the truck, there's another long conversation then he
comes back in and says. "A long
time, we're building a house".



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post #6 of 11 (permalink) Old 17th July 2017, 13:33
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Hahaha

But on a serious note the straps need to be fitted long ways to the wall as it's the block/brickwork courses that help hold down the roof or like you say yours is fitted long part of the strap is on the timber then the short part of the strap is only going to be fixed to the top block work course which means if the roof is going to move it will take the top blocks with it.
Yep spot the deliberate mistake

If your house is a new build less than 10yrs old time to get in touch with builder if poss or then NHBC so they can rectify the strap fixings

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post #7 of 11 (permalink) Old 17th July 2017, 17:04 Thread Starter
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No, house is older than 10 years but makes me wonder if this was the standard of workmanship what else did they do? I've had a look around the house at various bits, noticed some of the mains cables led into / along the roof area were badly routed, in one case fouled hard against one of those nail plate things that hold the A frames together and corrected these as I went along. In other areas it seemed OK like the earthing on the water pipes under the sink (although they never wiped the the soldered joints after installation and I had to clean off all the corrosion). When we had the bathroom done we had a load of problems so I'm resigned to poor workmanship, it seems like it's par for the course these days.

Here's a pic of one of my roof ties, you won't see the metal bit because I wrapped it in pipe insulation so I wouldn't hit my head (again). Take a look at the mortar joints on those cinder blocks - not pretty.



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post #8 of 11 (permalink) Old 17th July 2017, 20:11
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Hi Victor
The roof ties fit onto the timber wall plates that sit on top of the last block course work like in previous pics that pic of tie rapped in insulation so it don't hurt your head
All that look like it's doing is bracing the uprights the normal bracing is 4 by 1 or one by four this is fitted to keep the spacing the correct gaps until it's felted and battened which then super seeds this bracing but it all gives extra strength as concrete tiles are used on majority of new builds which is a lot lot more weight than slate.
Try and look along the wall plate timbers it'll be a bit tight and see if you have them fitted you'll only see a small part of them as they run down the walls behind the dot and dab fixed plaster board
It iwould be very unusual that these ties are not fitted looks you just got some spares in the loft left over from when they fitted the bracing across your uprights
Yep think they laid them blocks with a kids plastic shovel Edited by: Bigjohnsparky

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post #9 of 11 (permalink) Old 17th July 2017, 22:38
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Victor,

To add to BJS's advice:
1. In recent years it has been a requirement of the Building Regulations to mechanically tie rafters, ceiling joists and floor joists to external walls running parallel to their direction of span. This is to prevent roofs from blowing away and to prevent walls from being sucked out by negative wind pressure.
2. There are differences in some of the regulations between England and Scotland (I am not familiar with the Scottish regulations).
3. There are two types of tie cross section available and those referred to above should have a minimum cross sectional area of 30 x 5mm. They should be installed at 2 metre maximum centres and be fixed to the masonry wall and then across at least three rafters, ceiling joists and floor joists, with the gap between the wall and the nearest timber packed tight with a timber offcut so the the roof/wall/floor are rigidly fixed together.
4. In addition, the timber wall plate (running along the top of a loadbearing external wall and upon which the ceiling joists sit - and sometimes the rafters are birdsmouthed over) should be strapped down to the blockwork inner leaf rather than rely on a cement mortar bed to hold it in place.
5. It is very simple technology but it works and so many 'builders' make mistakes and omissions in installing them - either through ignorance, incompetence or sheer laziness - that they are more difficult to rectify after a building is completed.
6. Further to this, older houses tend to have traditional timber cut roofs (where the roof structure is manufactured on site from separate pieces of timber by a carpenter) and the roof timbers tend to be substantial. Newer house - say in the last 30 years - tend to use trussed rafters for the structure. These are slender, planed timbers held together with pieces of baked bean tins (my analogy) applied by a press in a factory and following a computerised design for the entire structure. These roofs are relatively inexpensive, quick to erect and reliable if adequately braced with diagonal timbers and the roof space ventilated to prevent the baked bean tins from corroding. Again some 'builders' will hack them about on site for their own ends or to cover inaccuracies which places the integrity of the roof structure at risk. The trussed rafters are usually mechanically fixed to the wall plates with folded and punched pieces of baked bean tins. All of these metal ties and brackets should be properly nailed or screwed to the timber members - often nails and screws are left out to the 'builders' shame..
7. You might recall a few walls on Scottish schools collapsing in recent years. Same sort of thing in principle.
In the building industry we suffer from incompetent designers, incompetent tradesmen, penny pinching contractors and frightened/ignorant inspectors (and clients who want a cheap, quick job and don't want to pay the VAT). I should add that this is not true in all cases but standards have dropped to the lowest denominator unless you can find someone with a conscience. Don't worry, the Victorians were just as bad with their housebuilding for the masses. 'The Ragged Trousered Philanthropists' is a good read and 'The Honeywood File' an even better one if you are interested in such things.
Here is a useful link:
https://www.labcwarranty.co.uk/blog/all-strapped-in-how-to-use-lateral-restraints-during-construction/

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post #10 of 11 (permalink) Old 17th July 2017, 23:05 Thread Starter
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I just logged in with the intention of replying to BJS then I read that post of yours Dulac - phew. I like technical specs and regulations but that lot will keep me busy for months. Problem I have of course with Buildings, Construction Of, is that I don't know the names of all the bits beyond joists, rafters and walls

However, reading that link you gave, Dulac, there's a diagram (see pic) of exactly how these "noggings" are fitted to my house. The long end is attached to the rafters and the short end is passed through the cinder block wall and cemented in. That's why I don't think they are temporary fittings to hold the A frames in place during construction..



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